“(P)ostmodern readers should strive to envision Christ as gender queer. . .” so says ordained Evangelical Lutheran Church in America pastor Megan Rohrer. Rev. Rohrer is “The first openly transgender Lutheran pastor ordained in the United States” (see here).
The pastor says this in an essay “she” authored titled “Male Brides of the Mother Christ.” Here are some of the “her” more egregious comments:
“When queer readers name Christ as a gender queer mother/father it is not done out of fear of linking Christ to a queer sexual orientation. If Christ is both male and female, then it is impossible for a Christ to have an opposite-sex relationship. And if it is true as Paul writes in Galatians 3:28 that in Christ we too are no longer male or female, then it is also impossible for any Christians to have an opposite-sex relationship.”
“Bernard of Clairvaux uses female/mother imagery for Jesus, Moses, Peter, Paul, prelates and abbots when he writes extensively about how their wombs nurture, conceive and shelter while their breasts pour out instructions like breast milk.”
“Postmodern readers who strive to free themselves from dualistic and binary assumptions of male and female may relate to the language of Christ as mother/father. However, instead of believing that the physical and metaphoric motherhood/femaleness of Christ enhances the fatherhood/maleness of Christ, postmodern readers should strive to envision Christ as gender queer. If we were able to see Christ as truly gender queer then the femaleness of Christ would not negate her maleness of Christ, just as the maleness of Christ does not negate his femaleness.” (read here)
For the past three years Rev. Rohrer has been a contributing blogger for the ELCA website Living Lutheran (see here). Also, Rev. Rohrer “has been the Executive Director of The Welcome since June of 2002 and has been called to this ministry by a joint call from herchurch (Ebenezer Lutheran), Christ Church Lutheran, St. Fracis Lutheran and Sts. Mary and Martha Lutheran. Megan is rostered and overseen by both the local Lutheran and Episcopal bishops. Megan is also called to serve as an Associate Pastor at St. Aidan's Episcopal Church.” All churches are in the San Francisco Bay area. (see here)
Any God-fearing denomination should find these comments heretical and incompatible with their teaching and take action against the pastor who made them. But the ELCA will take no action. They have proven to be accepting of these kind of teachings in the past (just look around this website) and Rev. Rohrer's teachings are well known by her superiors.
Grace Lutheran Church Council President and its Pastors respond regarding the issues surrounding their congregation and the ELCA.
"A message from Anne Carter, Rev. Rolf Nestingan, and Rev. David Irgens."
(New Update: from Dean Kallenbach)
The former members of Grace Lutheran Church in Eau Claire, who have had their voting status removed by action of the Northwest Wisconsin Synod of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) supported by a ruling by Polk County Circuit Court Judge Molly GaleWyrick on Tuesday, gathered for worship this morning in the Stokes and Mundt Funeral Home in Altoona. 386 individuals in attendance at the service. Following the communion services, children went to Sunday School while the adults had coffee before moving to a question-and-answer session and then a business meeting.
In that meeting, the former Grace members in attendance voted unanimously to form a new congregation. Saving Grace Lutheran will be an affiliate of Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ (LCMC), a centrist, congregation-based Lutheran church body which recognizes Scripture as the sole source and norm of faith and life.
The church council that had been representing the members at Grace Lutheran Church was appointed as the council of Saving Grace for at least the next year when there will be a new constitution and elections.
A constitution committee was appointed, as ws a relocation/property committee to find a semi-permanent place to worship. According to Saving Grace President Anne Carter, the congregation needs a good space, a good kitchen and plenty of parking.
Pastors Rolf Nestingen and David Irgens were asked if they were willing to serve the congregation. Both pastors agreed, and their response was greeted with a standing ovation.
The business staff -- formerly of Grace Lutheran -- will continue to work with Saving Grace on a part-time basis to start, according to Anne .
According to the Saving Grace LCMC Facebook page, "Saving Grace Lutheran was formed after the ELCA closed the doors of Grace Lutheran Church, removing the congregation and staff until further notice. There is where Saving Grace was born in the heart of Eau Claire. Saving Grace church's mission is to make Jesus Christ known to others and to serve the people; in the heart of Eau Claire with a heart for the world as well as to serve our brothers and sisters in other countries."
The Facebook page lists the address of the new congregation as 800 Wisconsin St, Building D2 420K, Box 65 in Eau Claire (54703). The congregation phone number is listed as 715-797-1020.
I understand a news release regarding the new congregation is being developed, and I'll share that when I see it.
In related news, Grace Lutheran Church has had a long-standing television ministry. In anticipation of the many questions viewers would have based on the court decision this past week, leadership of what was formerly Grace Lutheran Church and is now Saving Grace Lutheran recorded a video that aired this morning on WQOW-TV 18 at 6 a.m.. That video -- nearly one-half hour in length -- is available on You Tube, and may be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJnO9hLZrdE&feature=youtu.be
As I understand it (thought I wasn't in town to see it), the Grace Lutheran broadcast for this Sunday (the normal 10:30 a.m. broadcast) was a recording of a choral presentation from several years ago.
Finally, according to the Grace Lutheran Church website, no Sunday service was held at the church today. According to the web site, "During this time of transition, the Grace Lutheran Church building on 202 West Grand Avenue will be closed. During transition, Grace ELCA will worship at First Lutheran..." No reason was given why the new leadership of Grace Lutheran Church chose to worship in a different building.
Rarely am I surprised when I read or hear stories of what the ELCA is teaching or things that are happening in the church, but I was with this one. Not long ago I received an email from Jill Weber. She was concerned by what she heard and experienced while visiting an ELCA church. This is what the Jill wrote -
I recently attended Shepherd Of The Hills Church in Flagstaff, AZ. The senor pastor is Susan Swanson and the teaching pastor is her husband Tim Swanson. I attended the church service on Dec. 9, 2012 and also the Bible study taught by Tim. I was grieved in my spirit when I asked him a direct question if he believed if Jesus is God? His response was “that's a hard question." He also told this class that "it wasn't important that Jesus was born of a virgin." I responded "Yes it is important that Jesus was born of a virgin and it does matter, because Jesus came to fulfill all the prophecies!" He said he didn't want to argue. I told him he would be arguing with the Word of God. He also cited the gnostic gospels (the gospel of Thomas) as if it were Gospel! Galatians 1:4-9. The senor pastor, his wife was also listening to the conversation and jokingly warned her husband "you better be careful you might lose your job" (I say he should!). The adults in the Bible study laughed. I wanted to stand up and face the people and say "are you really paying them to teach you heresies? That isn't funny because the joke is on you!" The next Sunday I attended the service and then the Christmas program showing how other people celebrated Christmas in different parts of the world; including Befana from Italy, who is a witch. Befana was visited by the wise men and they asked her if she wanted to go and search for baby Jesus and she told them no but after they left she decided that she would, so she flew on her broomstick from house to house in search of Jesus but never did find him. A little girl about 9yrs. was dressed up like Befana including broomstick and all! Wow, I never knew that did you? I think Jesus referred to such teachers as "a brood of vipers!" This program was put together by the Rev. Susan Swanson.
For those that may be wondering, Befana the witch is an old European story that was made into a book called, The Legend of Old Befana. Barnes and Noble's overview of the book says this, "The celebration of Befana, who flies across the sky on Twelfth Night, leaving cakes and cookies for children as they sleep, is a beloved story in Europe. It is timeworn only by its many versions, and Tomie dePaola's retelling is unique in its resplendent settings and carefully researched detail. His story also broadens the character of the eccentric old recluse of the small Italian village, who is always sweeping. While Befana is sometimes called a witch. . ." (see here)
So let me recap this. According to an eye witness, in an ELCA church where a pastor apparently finds it hard to confirm the Bible's testimony that Jesus is God and that Jesus was born of a virgin, there was a Christmas program that included a child playing a broom-flying witch. This is what happens people, when our faith leaders do not hold Scripture as being from God and Truth. This is what happens when ELCA leadership makes themselves the arbitrators of what is true and what isn't. Also notice that this church's members seem to go along with the false teaching, like sheep being led to the slaughter.
I pray that God would open the eyes of all ELCA members so they could see that they are being led astray, led away from God, some slowly and some in extremely dramatic ways, by the leadership of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.
Almost every other month we get another group of Evangelical Lutheran Church in America bishops and pastors publically advocating for same-sex marriage and calling on voters to do that same. This time it is comes from the state of Illinois.Twenty-seven ELCA pastors and ELCA bishop Wayne Miller, ELCA Metropolitan Chicago Synod, signed a letter, along with 230 other clergy saying, "As people of faith and as citizens of Illinois, we ask you to . . . support the freedom to marry." (read here)A newspaper article in The New York Times, "Illinois Clergy Members Support Same-Sex Marriage in Letter Signed by 260" reported that the Illinois legislature is likely to take up legislation on same-sex marriage in January.Speaking to The New York Times, "The Rev. Kim L. Beckmann of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, who lives in the Chicago area, said she was drawn into the movement 'as my gay and lesbian parishioners were welcomed into our congregation.''I have participated in blessings of these unions for longer than we’ve even been talking about marriage,' she said. 'I’m thrilled to take this step.'” Laurie Higgins, cultural analyst for the Illinois Family Institute, who supports traditional marriage, commented that the clergy letter "is signed quite obviously by faith leaders who have adopted radical, ahistorical, heretical theological views . . . Their views are informed not by careful exegesis, but by personal desire and political convictions.” (read here)
Here is a list of the ELCA leadership who signed the letter - Bishop Wayne Miller, ELCA Metropolitan Chicago Synod Rev. Dan Hoeger, Our Saviors Lutheran Church, ELCA
Pastor Paul Carlson, New Life Lutheran Church, ELCA
Dr. Esther Portnoy, St. Andrew’s Lutheran Church, ELCA
Rev. Dr. Kim L. Beckmann, ELCA
Pastor Liala Beukema, Lake View Lutheran Church, ELCA
Rev. Erik C. Christensen, St. Luke's Lutheran Church of Logan Square, ELCA
Rev. Michael Fick, Ebenezer Lutheran Church, ELCA
Rev. Fred Kinsey, Unity Evangelical Lutheran Church, ELCA
Pastor Craig Mueller, Holy Trinity Lutheran Church, ELCA Rev. John Roberts, Unity Lutheran Church, ELCA
Pastor Julie Ryan, Christ the Mediator Lutheran Church, ELCA
Rev. Seminarian Kyle Severson, Holy Trinity Lutheran Church, ELCA
Pastor Michelle Sevig, Holy Trinity Lutheran Church, ELCA
Rev. Carrie Smith, Bethany Lutheran Church, ELCA
Rev. Dr. Robert Smith, Bethany Lutheran Church, ELCA
Pastor Keith Fry, Christ the Lord Lutheran Church, ELCA
Pastor Lloyd Kittlaus, University Lutheran Church, ELCA
Rev. Betty Landis, St. Paul's Lutheran Church, ELCA
Pastor Jim Honig, Faith Lutheran Church, ELCA
Rev. Patrick McGuire, St. John’s Lutheran Church
Rev. William Veith, Our Lord's Lutheran Church, ELCA
Rev. Dennis Kelly, Lutheran Church of the Ascension, ELCA
Pastor Kathy Nolte, Good Shepherd Lutheran Church, ELCA
Rev. Dan Schwick, Lutheran Advocacy of Illinois, St. Luke's Lutheran Church, ELCA
Rev. Kenneth Storck, Gloria Dei Lutheran Church, ELCA
Pastor Stacie Fiedlar, St. John's Lutheran Church, ELCA
Rev. Suzanne Anderson-Hurdle, Good Shepherd Lutheran Church, ELCA
What do you know . . . An ELCA leader doesn’t believe what the Bible says; this time its about Jesus’ birth. Surprise and Merry Christmas! (Do they celebrate Christmas in the ELCA any longer?)
Here is what was said by Rev. Dr. Don Carlson, Assistant to the Bishop of the Texas-Louisiana Gulf Coast Synod, concerning the two accounts of Jesus’ birth in the gospel of Matthew and the gospel of Luke:
“They are very different stories which are quite incompatible with one another. . .I certainly do not believe they are ‘historical’ in any modern understanding of historicity. . .I think that the stories are made up. (I’m retiring at the end of May anyway so don’t waste time with the heresy accusations.) They are myth” (read here).
Here is what Rev. Carlson had to say about Christ being born of a virgin:
“Focusing on the virgin birth issue, we need to remember that accounts of virgin or miraculous births were not uncommon antiquity. However, we also need to remember that such accounts were intended to express something about the character of the person born. They were a ‘character reference’ or ‘credentials.’ They were not intended to explain where the individual got 23 of his or her chromosomes. An understanding of fertilization and pregnancy in antiquity was, let’s say, ‘agrarian’ at best.” (read in the same article linked above)
Toward the end of his blog/article Rev. Carlson gives this advice to pastors: “tell the old mythic story in a way that. . . it is heard anew”. In order to prove his points in the blog, the Assistant to the Bishop recommends a discussion of the birth narratives by the controversial Marcus Borg. (find out more about him here)
Pastor Steve Shipman, director of LutheranCORE addresses those who teach like Rev. Carlson. Rev. Shipman wrote:“If a person chooses not to believe the Virgin Birth, they are free to do so. But they have no right then to claim to be a teacher or believer in Christianity. The faith once delivered to the saints is not a cafeteria from which we can pick and choose what pleases us.
If Jesus were born in the usual way, then what does it mean that He is 'the Word made flesh'? How can God be his Father in the way the Church has always proclaimed, if he is biologically the child of both Mary and Joseph (or even, as certain blasphemous legends suggest, of Mary and some other man)? Some early Christians made arguments for what is called ‘adoptionism,’ which taught that Jesus wasn’t born Son of God but was adopted into that role at his baptism by John. This was quickly rejected as heresy, because then the good news of the Incarnation simply can’t stand.
And it does matter for our salvation that ‘God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.’ It does matter that ‘the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.’ If Jesus is just a good human being, even a perfect human being, He cannot save us but would only have saved Himself. But because He is God among us, taking our humanity into the life of the Holy Trinity, we have a marvelous hope for this life and the next.” (read here)
What I am reporting isn’t just one ELCA leader preaching heresy. No. Rev. Carlson’s article was posted on the website and blog of Michael Rinehart, bishop of the Texas-Louisiana Gulf Coast Synod of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. Bishop Rinehart is responsible for the article’s posting on his blog and he is culpable for what it says. ELCA Presiding Bishop Mark S. Hanson, the ELCA’s Church Council and all high-ranking ELCA leaders are also responsible and culpable for what he (and others) say and/or for allowing theologically false-teaching to be preached. Allowing this heresy is the same as promoting it yourself. They are accomplices and are leading people away from God’s Truth and way from Christ.
People who don’t believe basic Christian truths and historic stories in the Bible are running the ELCA, teaching in the seminaries, preaching in the pulpits and “teaching” you about Christianity. Honestly, I believe Satan has infiltrated the ELCA and placed his people in leadership positions.
Here’s some more information on Assistant to the Bishop Rev. Dr. Don Carlson:
- Some of Rev. Carlson responsibilities as Assistant to the Bishop are “Call Process, Candidacy, Theological Education, Leadership” (see here).
- Carlson, a gay man, has been pushing homosexuality issues in the ELCA for years. (link provided upon request)
- As Exposing the ELCA has reported, Rev. Carlson has said a number of unBiblical things in the past (see here and here)
The ELCA’s Presiding Bishop Mark S. Hanson was interviewed by Minnesota Public Radio concerning the recent news of Luther Seminary, the denomination’s largest seminary, having extreme financial difficulties.
Here is one section from the interview -
Interviewer: “You are the head of the nation’s largest Lutheran denomination, the ELCA. And as you know, you’ve lost about 600 or so congregations after that controversial decision allowing openly gay and lesbian pastors to service. Is a drop in seminary enrollment a refection of that decision at all?”
Presiding Bishop Mark Hanson: “I don’t, I don’t see that. In fact, many young adults that I encounter, that I am on Twitter with and that I’m constantly in conversation with, in fact see that as a source of hope for this church and something that is drawing them into the life of this church.” (listen here)
Under Mark Hanson’s leadership, perversion was promenaded into the church with joyous celebration. Sinful acts against God have been declared good. When a church turns its back on God, godly men and women will leave and take their tithes with them. But as we read above, the leader of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America is living in denial by not seeing that the disregard for God and His Word is the main reason for it being a dying, financially-challenged denomination.
ELCA Pastor number one:
A few days ago, Liliana Stahlberg, a pastor of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America decided to comment on Exposing the ELCA’s facebook page. Her comments came in response to a linked article entitled, “UCC Minister Enlists Help of Anti-Semitic Publication to Get Message Out.” Rev. Stahlberg said “Good for him!” Just after her praise for this UCC minister’s partnering with a Jew-hating publication she said, “Why do you guys waste your time hating people?”
On another section of our facebook page Rev. Stahlberg commented, "Exposing the ELCA is the true apostate church along with word alone, lutheran core and the likes...you are truly sad people!”
Liliana Stahlberg is the pastor of Highlands Lutheran Church in Denver, Colorado. (see here) Looking around on Highlands Lutheran Church’s facebook page (see here), I found a great deal of praise for many theologically questionable emergent church leaders. One post said “Highlanders, join me and others for this outstanding event where Brian McLaren a present day prophet speaks on how to turn hostility into hospitality! HE IS AMAZING!” and another post said “Bolz-Weber is preaching this Sunday at HLC! Come one, come all!”(read about Rev. Bolz-Weber here) Rev. Stahlberg’s church also shared articles on their facebook page by Jim Wallis and Shane Claiborne.
Just today Rev. Stahlberg returned to Exposing the ELCA’s facebook page to share more of her anger saying, “How arrognat of Dan Skogen to think he knows what God's word really is? he has never heard of Christ obviously!” and “Why are you guys sooooo homophobic? What are you afraid of? Why do you let your reptilian part of the brain take over the cortex that makes you human?”
Surely this woman is destined for greatness within the apostate Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.
ELCA pastor number two:
Retired ELCA pastor, John-Otto Liljenstolpe, recently sent a comment to Exposing the ELCA in support of ELCA Presiding Bishop Mark Hanson, when he came across a blog of mine entitled, “What is Bishop Hanson's Motivation?” I decided to do a little research on Rev. Liljenstolpe and found out he is a 9/11 truther. Rev. Liljenstolpe signed a petition on a website called, Religious Leaders for 9/11 Truth and he penned this statement found on the same website: “I agree that the official conspiracy theory offered us by the Bush Administration appointed committee is not credible. I therefore demand that a panel be appointed involving physicists, engineers, architects, pilots, former intelligence officials, and military officers, historians, journalists - some of these being from other nations to evaluate the 9/11 WTC incident in the light of the available facts.” (see here)
I also came across a video of Pastor Liljenstolpe leading a prayer for protesters at Occupy Seattle.
I’m beginning to think the only requirement for being an ELCA pastor is to deny Biblical Truth. Anything else is fine.
ELCA leadership, for the most part, believes in evolution. (see here) It seems crazy to me that church leaders and pastors who are supposed to shepherd their flock can twist the clear reading of scripture and outright deny what is says. Seems to me God would know better than they on how He made everything. Yet ELCA pastors and seminary professors revel in their “superior” knowledge and belittle those “simpletons” who believe God.
I get the impression ELCA leaders do not like being called out as evolution supporters and creation deniers. Most of them wouldn’t dare get up in the pulpit and tell you that they believe God’s account of creation is false. They should be challenged on their belief.
That brings me to a written dialog I've been having with an ELCA pastor. This ELCA pastor wrote me and evidently was not happy with a blog I wrote called “ELCA Churches Celebrate Evolution Weekend” (see here).
The pastor at one point said “The Bible is not science and to try and make it so just makes us all look ignorant. Don't be afraid sir, as God has created everything even science. If you must believe that the earth was created in 7 days please don't bash those of us who are not afraid to move into the centuries and acknowledge the findings that bear the real truth.”
I responded by email saying, “Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I disagree with your position on creation and believe it is everyone’s right to know what their ELCA pastor or leadership believes on the issue when they have decided to ‘go public’ with it. It is good to know where your pastor is coming from when they are teaching you.
There are thousands of scientists that believe in Biblical creation and a plethora of evidence to prove that evolution is not good science. Here is a list of 'renown scientists in the past and today' who believe in the biblical account of creation. - http://creation.com/creation-scientists#presentsci
I will leave you with this, 'When Moses writes that God created heaven and earth and whatever is in them in six days, then let this period continue to have been six days, and do not venture to devise any comment according to which six days were one day. But, if you cannot understand how this could have been done in six days, then grant the Holy Spirit the honor of being more learned than you are.' - Martin Luther, What Martin Luther Says: A Practical In-Home Anthology for the Active Christian.
God bless you”
Today the ELCA pastor replied saying “This is not about evolution. It is about common sense.
Lord God, you have called your servants to ventures of which we cannot see the ending, by paths as yet untrodden, through perils unknown. Give us faith to go out with good courage, not knowing where we go, but only that your hand is leading us and your love supporting us; through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Morning Prayer, LBW, pg. 137”
I responded, “It is not common sense but it is your blind faith in evolution/big bang. You just don't like what God said. Something very common in the ELCA.
In Christ,Dan Skogen”
Two questions you should ask yourself, 1) do you believe your ELCA pastor's view of creation or God's? And 2) do you want to be under leadership who denies something so clearly stated by our Creator?
The Rev. Benjamin Larzelere III is retiring. He has been a pastor at the ELCA-affiliated Christ Lutheran Church in Santa Fe, NM, for 37 years. According to this news story, (see here) he is passionate about “inclusiveness.” So much so, that Christ Lutheran marched in the Santa Fe 2012 gay pride parade. (see here) Additionally, “The doormat outside the main entrance to Christ Lutheran promises ‘all are welcome.’ A rainbow flag hangs in the common room and on a nearby table are neon orange fliers asking, ‘What did Jesus say about homosexuality?’ — and the answer, ‘That’s right. Nothing!’”
From that statement alone you can see that this pastor has a very unorthodox view of God’s Word. Or to be blunt, a false and warped view of Scripture.
The news article about Rev. Larzelere goes on to tell us, “He sees the Bible not as the literal word of God but as ‘a collection of stories, history and poems. It is not a talking book. It doesn’t tell me what to do.’”
This man, who has been teaching and preaching for 37 years, has a view of Scripture that is in complete opposition to the way Christ viewed Scripture. (see here) Jesus viewed it as God’s Word, inspired and true. It’s quite clear how Rev. Larzelere views Scripture. Much like an astounding number of others in his denomination (ELCA) unfortunately.
Looking around at Christ Lutheran’s website I came across the last sermon given by Rev. Larzelere before his retirement (September 9, 2012). It seems that Rev. Larzelere doesn’t believe Jesus and the writers of Scripture, when they talk about demons. He wrote this when describing a story in the gospel of Mark, “a woman whose daughter was ill (‘had an unclean spirit’ writes Mark in 1st Century understanding of what could be just about anything from depression on up). . .” (read here)
Why is it so hard for ELCA pastors to believe what the Bible says?
Have you ever had someone tell you that Jesus didn’t understand some of the things going on and happening around Him? Or that our Lord and Savior was in need of correction? Have you had a pastor tell you that the One who said, “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father” (John 14:9), needed help figuring out God’s will? That is what Rev. Delmer Chilton, an assistant to the bishop of the Southeastern Synod of the ELCA, wrote in an article that was posted by the ELCA’s Living Lutheran website.
Rev. Chilton, in discussing Mark 7:24-37, wrote, “What if Jesus was the one who did not fully understand and needed some help interpreting God’s will and way in this case? Maybe Jesus needed to have his vision cleared and his worldview adjusted so that he could see just exactly how large God’s love is.”
Later he states, “(Jesus) has failed to remember” God’s promise.
Rev. Chilton goes on to say, “. . . Jesus stands corrected . . .the woman has helped Jesus to understand a difficult part of the Scripture and a difficult part of his call. The further Jesus goes in his ministry the deeper his understanding of his mission becomes. And this deeper understanding is a result of his encounters with people who aren’t afraid to confront him with hard and difficult truths.”
Finally he states, “The good news of God’s grace and love changes people. It heals them, changes their relationships, changes the way they see right and wrong, rich and poor, us and them. It even changed Jesus and the way he saw the world and the way he saw himself in it.” (see here)
This is not true and not Biblical. It is incredibly wrong that a high leader in the ELCA publicly teaches this, let alone thinks it.
A gentlemen going by the name “Davey” commented on Rev. Chilton’s article saying, “I have never considered before that Jesus did anything by accident. I have never thought of Jesus learning anything from any one. Jesus knew answers before questions were asked. He told people where they have been, where they were going, and healed their sickness without being told of the symptoms. He spoke and the elements obeyed. Why would Jesus need to find out how large God’s love is when Jesus demonstrated that He is in fact…God?
Driving a wedge between God the Father and God the Son seems an inadequate and un-Biblical way to define Jesus. Jesus was not on a fact finding mission to take notes from earthlings so He could better understand how God the Father wanted Him to act. Is this yet another new theology coming from the leadership of the church?” (read here)